over the weekend, had a zone reporting error. zone 8 was not reporting correctly on the panel in that the panel said it was open when it was in fact closed. there are several sensors in the zone. i tested them all, none of them was testing properly. other zones were testing properly, only zone 8 wasn’t. i fully powered down the panel, both AC and battery, then powered back up. zone 8 sensors were still not testing properly, but they were reporting closed on panel and panel home button was green, ready to arm.
i then armed the system stay. about an hour later, the alarm triggered, reporting a zone 8 violation (even though all zone 8 sensors were physically closed). i disarmed the system. zone 8 was now reporting open on panel, even though all were closed, but still no zone 8 sensors were testing properly.
the next day, one of the zone 8 sensors was testing properly; the other sensors in zone 8 were still not testing properly.
Did you test all the sensors on the zone originally and they were functioning?
If you have intermittent false opening of a wired zone, I would check to make sure the wiring at the panel is not loose or damaged for that zone. If the wiring is secured and undamaged you’ll need to test resistance on the zone.
Commonly this is going to indicate that there is too high resistance on the circuit, and it is straddling the threshold where the panel views the zone as open.
Using a multimeter, disconnect the zone wire and common wire at the panel for that circuit. measure resistance between those two wires when all sensors are closed. What is the resistance?
i hadn’t tested every single sensor previously, but i do know that at least some of the sensors in that zone did test appropriately originally.
on further testing after this episode, i tested a number of other sensors in multiple zones (not just zone 8). on walk testing, some sensors test inconsistently. for example, i might open a window without sensing, close the window without sensing, open the window get sensing. or even open a window without sensing, then close the window and get sensing…what do you make of that?
the wires at the sensors look intact. i will check the wires at the panel. for resistance testing, which are the zone and common wire?
could this have anything to do with my having edited zone names in installer settings?
When using a new system, be sure to test all sensors.
Also keep in mind it may be related to how you are testing. Do you make sure that all sensors are closed? Keep in mind if one sensor is open, opening another on the same zone circuit won’t result in any chime as the zone is still open.
How are you testing?
Are you listening for chimes at the panel?
Or are you testing by looking at the status in Alarm.com or the ADC app?
If you are looking in the app or website, this will not be effective because there is a processing delay of a few minutes for repeated non-alarm signals from the same zone. Do not test local function by checking and refreshing the Alarm.com at a glance status.
Make sure to turn on chime at the keypad by pressing 7 - 1. (this toggles chime) Make sure all windows are closed on the zone you want to test. Then, one by one, open, listen for chime, then close each window. Do all the sensors report to the panel?
could this have anything to do with my having edited zone names in installer settings?
No, sensor names would have no impact.
i will check the wires at the panel. for resistance testing, which are the zone and common wire?
If the sensors are not responding at the panel locally, then you would want to check resistance. Start by checking Zone 8, remove the wire in the zone 8 terminal and the corresponding conductor from its common (GND) terminal. Typically it would be connected to Zone 8 and the GND between 6 and 7. The two conductors should be from the same cable.
i’ve been testing using the walk test function on the panel (not using ADC app or website). when i open a sensor, the panel announces the name of the zone. when i close the same sensor, the panel announces the zone name again. yes, i make sure all sensors in a given zone are closed except the one i’m testing. the inconsistencies i mentioned refer to sometimes the panel not announcing the zone name upon my opening or closing a sensor. is this an adequate way to test, or enabling chime is better?
Ah my mistake, I thought I recalled this as a Concord. This is a 2GIG using translators. The chime instruction above is for Concord. On 2GIG Chimes are set individually on the zones under chimes in the toolbox. (Security - Menu - Toolbox - Master Code - Chimes) Resistance is still important and may be too high, but it would be between the zone and common wires connected to that RE108 (if I recall correctly now) and those two wires will be connected to “Loop 8” on the RE108.
More likely, if you are using walk test, a few things may be throwing it off. Is the panel announcing for the motion detectors during that same time? Wired motions would not have any delay between when they can activate and may be announcing over the windows.
But since you are seeing an issue with Walk Test I would suggest turning up the volume and listening for chimes as suggested above, all window sensors, one sensor at a time. Does it chime for all?
jason i tested all sensors as you suggested. most of the sensors chimed reliably and repeatedly with the following exceptions:
-one window sensor in zone 8 (but not the sensor i think was causing the problem that led me to initiate this thread, though perhaps it’s impossible to be sure?) did not chime after repeated attempts. however, after leaving it open for about 5 minutes, it did chime. i then closed it, and then tested multiple times. i’d say the sensor chimes about 50% of the time.
-one or two other sensors (in different zones) chimed most of the time, but would occasionally (like once or twice out of repeated attempts) not chime.
what do you make of this? is measuring resistance still the next step? if so, do i measure the resistance across the 2 wires connected into a given loop number in the translator?
As long as you are not opening and closing too quickly, chime should be responsive. You can open and close too quickly (within 5 seconds or so) and the second chime won’t register. This may be what is going on. Just to be certain, leave ten seconds in between opening. Does this resolve anything?
This could be a resistance issue if the resistance is borderline high. It wouldn’t hurt just to verify that the resistance is correct for the device they are wired into. For an RE108 you should have near 4.7kohms.
I don’t think I’m opening and closing too quickly, as I tested the same way on all the sensors and the problem seems isolated to the one. I will try again though.
Just to make sure I understand, to measure the resistance in a given zone, I take out the 2 wires connected into a given loop number in the RE108?
After further testing, zone 8 seems to be working inconsistently. Multiple sensors in the zone on occasion will not chime or be reported on the panel as open when opened. When that happens, sometimes if I leave the sensor open, it will chime (and be reported as open on the panel) after several minutes; other times it fails to chime or be recognized by the panel as open after up to 10 minutes (although I didn’t wait the full 60 minutes supervision duration; I am assuming for the time being based on previous testing that supervision would eventually recognize the sensor as open). Sometimes, the sensors do chime and report correctly as open when opened.
As I mentioned, this delayed chiming and recognition by the panel of a sensor having been opened affects several of the sensors in zone 8. However, this malfunction seems to affect one particular sensor much more than the others–fails to chime and be recognized as open more often than not.
All other sensors in all of the other zones appropriately and immediately chime and get recognized by the panel as open when I open them.
I measured the resistance of zone 8 at ~2 kohms. I know you said it should be about 4.5 kohms, but I got the same measurement of 2 kohms on all other zones.
in addition to the above, when i open a sensor in zone 8 and there is a delay in the panel recognizing the sensor as having been opened (and chiming), it took 30 minutes after i closed the sensor for the panel to recognize it has having been closed, and change to green ready to arm.
so in summary it seems zone 8 can experience long delays (up to 30 minutes or more) in the panel recognizing a change in state of its sensors, and it seems to affect one particular sensor more than the others in the zone. all other sensors in the other zones seem to work properly.
I measured the resistance of zone 8 at ~2 kohms. I know you said it should be about 4.5 kohms, but I got the same measurement of 2 kohms on all other zones.
Ah, this would mean that the original installer just left the existing resistors which were used for the wired control panel. While that would work with a TAKE-345, the RE108 should use the 4.7 kohm resistors included with the RE108.
Given the strange intermittent issue, this would be the first thing I would try to resolve. I would replace the resistors with appropriate 4.7 kohm ones (can be purchased from local or online electronics supplier, or they may be left near the RE108 since resistors were included in the packaging).
Does that make a difference in the operation?
One thing that may also be a good test based on what you have described: physically remove the sensor which causes the most trouble on zone 8. While the sensor is removed, check the wires for any damage or corrosion, then twist the wires together to close that portion of the circuit.
Try testing the rest of the sensors on that circuit with the most problematic sensor removed. Is there any difference in operation?
There may be an intermittent resistance changes due to corrosion, faulty sensor, or kink in the wire which affects that zone differently. Regardless of that, the 2kohm resistors are not the correct ones to use in that circumstance and can lead to problems down the line if that is in fact an RE108. If there is any doubt as to the hardwired translator model please post a photo of the internals and we would be happy to help verify.
The suggested test above can be performed as well on the zone and the particular sensor causing the most trouble.
You could test removing the troublesome sensor first of course, but I would still recommend resistor replacement per manufacturer instruction.
Yep, that would be it. Is the RE108 always inside the closed metal cabinet?
I assume the wireless translator is nearby, so it may not be too big of an impact on function, but in general any wireless device should not be housed inside the metal box, including the RE108. That can create some overall signaling issues as well.
It might be good to fish those zones outside the can when changing the resistors as well. Do you still have the cover to the RE108?
yes the RE108 resides in the box; unfortunately the cover is not here. The original installers must have discarded it when they decided to setup this way.
Yes the GE to 2gig translator RE224GT is mounted on the wall next to the metal box.
With the translator nearby outside the box, that is the device which needs to reach the alarm panel, so in this case the proximity should alleviate any issues for the RE108 being inside.
i changed the resistor to a 4.7 kohm–no improvement in function.
One thing that may also be a good test based on what you have described: physically remove the sensor which causes the most trouble on zone 8. While the sensor is removed, check the wires for any damage or corrosion, then twist the wires together to close that portion of the circuit.
by this do you mean remove the sensor at the window? can you advise how to do this without destroying it (assuming there’s a chance it’s not already broken)? it looks fairly well secured. (pic below).
or did you mean remove it from series at the box?
if this one particular sensor which is most frequently not being sensed at the panel is indeed the issue, could that explain the intermittent, albeit less frequent, malfunctioning of other sensors in the same zone?
